“America” producer Dinesh D’Souza and Weather Underground co-founder Bill Ayers were on “The Kelly File” for a debate about America.

“There’s a tradition in America that I strongly support, and it’s the tradition of dissidence, it’s the tradition of radicals, it’s the tradition of revolutionaries,” Ayers told Megyn Kelly. He referenced the civil rights movement, which did great things but often broke the law.

D’Souza said there’s a big difference between Martin Luther King, Jr. breaking the law and Ayers breaking the law. D’Souza said that King broke the law nonviolently and accepted the penalty for breaking the law, questioning the law morally and trying to sway the American people.  D’Souza said that King believed in the goodness of the American people.


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But D’Souza said Ayers represents “the spirit of 1968, and this was the radical spirit that saw America as a force for evil, saw Vietnam as a metaphor for how bad America was, and then went right back into American history and reinterpreted American history as a series of crimes.” D’Souza said it became an anti-Americanism fostered in America.

Kelly also touched on a recent Pew study, which found that many citizens say they are not proud to be American.

“I’m not proud to be an American, and I don’t buy the American exceptionalism at all,” Ayers said, stressing that he thinks the nation does damage all around the world.


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D’Souza disagreed, saying, “I’ve grown up in a different culture. I know America is exceptional because I see things in America that you wouldn’t see anywhere else in the world.”

Watch more of this discussion in the video above. Tune in for more from D’Souza and Ayers in a Fourth of July special on Friday at 9p ET.